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Prospective owner with roof questions

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Gateswood

Active member
I'm very interested in a new, never been sold 2023 Alliance Avenue fifth wheel. I had a first look yesterday. I didn't go on the roof but I climbed up the ladder to have a quick look to see the layout of things. One of the first things I saw was numerous air bubbles under the membrane. They're small and I didn't touch one. Although the sales person I'm actually dealing with wasn't there, another one was in the area. I asked him to have a look and tell me about it. He said those bubbles are perfectly normal and nothing to be concerned about. Is this true?

Another question is, if this ever becomes a problem, would it be covered under the "PVC Roof – Lifetime Warranty"

It's a different kind of roof membrane than what's on my ancient Jayco Eagle fifth wheel but there are no air bubbles or air pockets on that roof.

Thank you,
GW
 
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Bozo

Well-known member
Not normal as far as membrane roofs go, but normal for the rv industry given the lack of real quality control. Those bubbles are a failed point of adhesion and can spread. I can’t tell you how many new rv’s I have seen being transported along I-80 with the front portions of roof membrane puffed up like a thanksgiving day balloon. Make them address it up front or pass on it.
 
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Bozo

Well-known member
Also, the pvc roof warranty would probably only be honored upon failure. Just my $2 opinion(adjusted for inflation).
 
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Gateswood

Active member
Thanks for the info and advice.

I'm particularly interested in learning more about the situation with this one. It's new with full warranties but with an asking price that's half of invoice cost. That alone creates another $2000 discount due to reduction in sales taxes. I've never found anything to compare to this offer. I can't find much of anything else wrong with the unit.

I just don't know if some bubbles in a pvc roof with a lifetime warranty on it is enough of a deal breaker to preclude spending $600 on a third party NRVIA inspection. Needless to say, I won't be taking the word of the yard dog who assures me bubbles aren't a problem.

I'm attaching a picture of the edge bubbles I can see from the top of the ladder. One interesting thing is when I looked in the hot sun the day before, there were some smaller bubbles visible in the red outlined area. Do bubbles go up and down with heat?
 

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Bozo

Well-known member
Gateswood said:
Thanks for the info and advice.

I'm particularly interested in learning more about the situation with this one. It's new with full warranties but with an asking price that's half of invoice cost. That alone creates another $2000 discount due to reduction in sales taxes. I've never found anything to compare to this offer. I can't find much of anything else wrong with the unit.

I just don't know if some bubbles in a pvc roof with a lifetime warranty on it is enough of a deal breaker to preclude spending $600 on a third party NRVIA inspection. Needless to say, I won't be taking the word of the yard dog who assures me bubbles aren't a problem.

I'm attaching a picture of the edge bubbles I can see from the top of the ladder. One interesting thing is when I looked in the hot sun the day before, there were some smaller bubbles visible in the red outlined area. Do bubbles go up and down with heat?
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Yes, they can change with the heat. If still dead set on this trailer take another 5k or so off for a new roof. Part of the warranty states that roof must be cleaned,, etc. (maintained). Wherever there is a bubble, that area is also constantly flexing via wind, rains, snow, whatever. Warranty work is usually a joke….they keep your unit for extended periods while waiting for approvals, parts , and so on. RV industry is in a world of hurt right now, I would advise against this unit but use it as leverage on another unit. Again, if you are still hung up on the $$$ off list, low ball big time. The roof is second only to chassis, in importance.
 
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Lantley

Well-known member
Bozo makes a good point. Figure the roof will need to be replaced. Price one of the professionally applied spray on roof coatings.
Factor the price of the coating into the deal. I think if you got some compensation for the roof even if it were not 100% replacement cost you would still be below the competition.
 
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Fishfnatic

Well-known member
My 310 rl had similar when I bought it and asked about. Same answer it was normal. 1 year later and no bubbles anymore. 🫤
 
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RockDr896

Well-known member
Would I be wrong in thinking, that the bubbles can be punctured and adhesive as well as PVC glue to seal it? I agree with Bozo though, I would walk away. Half price is not a good indicator of possible problems you haven't spotted yet. If you do a sprayed on coating, after fixing the adhesion to the roof, make sure the coating will bond to a PVC roof material. Best of luck!!
 
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Lantley

Well-known member
If it were 1 or 2 bubbles, puncturing bubbles and sealing might be a viable solution. But there are too many bubbles to start puncturing roof to make it better.
 
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RockDr896

Well-known member
Then it sounds like you have your answer for sure. Great points made by all. The remaining question would be this: Would anyone trust the dealer to put a new roof on, before you buy it? After all, they never replaced it with it being an obvious problem before they tried to sell it. The RV dealer market is just exposed again...
 
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Gateswood

Active member
Alliance customer service is having a case manager review this. Next move will be contingent on their info. I understand they're very trustworthy. Maybe the roof is okay, maybe not. Maybe they'd have the roof replaced under the lifetime warranty if it's bad. Maybe not. If not, I'll have a 3rd party inspection done and negotiate on everything found wrong. Get the best discount and go spend it on a FlexArmor job from a rv roof place. There are two of them 4 hours away. That would make me happy.
 
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Gateswood

Active member
The main reason it's marked down is because it's very old. So old it has the Schwintek bedroom slide so it's one of the very first 2023 units. I'm sure they're tired of looking at it.

No, I obviously don't know what I'm getting into but it's free to learn up to a certain point. Before I do anything I will know exactly what I'm getting into. It won't hurt my feelings at all if it gets sold before I figure it out.
 
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Bozo

Well-known member
Gateswood said:
The main reason it's marked down is because it's very old. So old it has the Schwintek bedroom slide so it's one of the very first 2023 units. I'm sure they're tired of looking at it.

No, I obviously don't know what I'm getting into but it's free to learn up to a certain point. Before I do anything I will know exactly what I'm getting into. It won't hurt my feelings at all if it gets sold before I figure it out.
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That, my friend, is a very valuable trait…..the ability to walk away. If meant to be, it will happen.
 
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Lantley

Well-known member
Old vs. new is not a clear cut as it may seem, especially to a novice buyer.
Newer models do add updated features which for the most part are an improvement.
However they also often delete features that were desirable as cost cutting measures.
You need to evaluate the unit as its sits for what it is.
For the record I'm OK with Schwintek slide on the smaller bedroom slides.
Larger Schwintek slides are more problematic and reason for concern
Obviously there is price comparison. But more important, what is the condition of the unit in question.
Features vs. a new unit is a minor concern and not a valid comparison.
The only way to get a new unit with the latest features is to buy new.
I specifically purchased a 2022 unit because I preferred the features and layout vs. the newer model.
The only question for me was the 2022 model in good shape and was the price fair/acceptable
Comparing it to anything else other than its own condition is a paper battle.
Determining that it is in good shape as it sits is the only real criteria to making a decision
 
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Gateswood

Active member
I heard back from the Alliance case manager reviewing the situation. Although it took him several tries to answer all of my questions, he did get it done. I learned one thing quite interesting. The membrane is secured to the substrate with adhesive only at the seams and around each rooftop component. Officially, there's no problem with the bubbles along the longitudinal axis near the edge or the bubbles I saw in the field area that were there one day when under the hot sun and gone the next when under the cool overcast.

I also heard from Dicor who said the bubbles are normal and allow for expansion and contraction. This will not affect the lifetime warranty on their tufflex membrane at all.

Cool. We can move along to the next step.

Edit: the build date of this 2023 unit is 9/22/22. Long before the BAL cable slides in the bedroom
 
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