Leaking pipes around hot water heater

[btempini]

I have an alliance paradigm 310RL and lately I have been having issues with the pex pipes leaking around the hot water heater. It started leaking around the white plastic "T" fittings and then I replaced those with the sharkbite style ones but then it would just start leaking at another spot on the same line. Finally fixed all the leaks at the hot water line out of the heater and now its leaking at the nautilus panel cold water line going to the hot water heater.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Im wondering if its a pressure issue since hot water expands. Do these heaters have an expansion tank? Worth installing a small one?

All the pex crimps look very good but some of the other thread on fittings were barely even hand tight so it seems there wasn't very great quality control here.

Also I live in it full time so I leave the electric water heater on 24/7. Is that okay to do?

Thanks in advance! Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[BryanValRox]

I have an alliance paradigm 310RL and lately I have been having issues with the pex pipes leaking around the hot water heater. It started leaking around the white plastic "T" fittings and then I replaced those with the sharkbite style ones but then it would just start leaking at another spot on the same line. Finally fixed all the leaks at the hot water line out of the heater and now its leaking at the nautilus panel cold water line going to the hot water heater.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Im wondering if its a pressure issue since hot water expands. Do these heaters have an expansion tank? Worth installing a small one?

All the pex crimps look very good but some of the other thread on fittings were barely even hand tight so it seems there wasn't very great quality control here.

Also I live in it full time so I leave the electric water heater on 24/7. Is that okay to do?

Thanks in advance! Any help would be much appreciated.

Sorry your experiencing these leaks.
The first thing that would come to mind would be the pressure coming into your coach. Are you using a regulator?
Normal inbound pressure would be 40-60 psi.
There is not a expansion tank, the water heater does allow for some thermal expansion. Also it is equipped with a PT (pressure/temperature)valve for safety reasons.

You should be find leaving the heater on 24/7/365 , assuming it is cycling on its thermostat as designed.

 

[Fishfnatic]

I had leaks behind my nautilus panel had to tighten all of them. I would
tighten one and start leaking at another spot. 310 rl also. it will also drip out of the pressure valve occasionally. We are full time too.

 

[btempini]

Sorry your experiencing these leaks.
The first thing that would come to mind would be the pressure coming into your coach. Are you using a regulator?
Normal inbound pressure would be 40-60 psi.
There is not a expansion tank, the water heater does allow for some thermal expansion. Also it is equipped with a PT (pressure/temperature)valve for safety reasons.

You should be find leaving the heater on 24/7/365 , assuming it is cycling on its thermostat as designed.

Thanks for your response, I do have a pressure regulator and its set for 50psi.

 

[btempini]

I had leaks behind my nautilus panel had to tighten all of them. I would
tighten one and start leaking at another spot. 310 rl also. it will also drip out of the pressure valve occasionally. We are full time too.

Where is the pressure valve?

 

[Fishfnatic]

Where is the pressure valve?

It is in front of hot water heater after removing cover outside. Looks like a faucet nozzle

 

[RockDr896]

My 2 cents is this. Since replacement is chasing the leaks further down the line, Perhaps you had the misfortune of a worn out pex crimping tool or someone not using the Pex band crimper correctly. Since Alliance uses both types of crimping methods, buy the tools (You will need them) and try re-crimping them (Pressure off). FYI - Shark bites fail in pressure tests waaaay before crimp fittings. Let us know the results...

 

[KCAlis]

Might want to try dewater-logging your water heater. It costs nothing and is pretty easy.

- Turn off your electric heater element (and gas if it’s on) to prevent it from burning out. Not that it should but it might.
- Shut off water to the trailer.
- Remove the water heater door and carefully pull the lever on the temperature/pressure relief valve to slowly release any internal pressure on the water system.
- Fully open the relief valve and let it drain until it stops. (This will build an air pocket in the top of the water heater which allows for water expansion when heated without overpressuring piping.)
- Return the lever to the closed position.
- Turn water back on to trailer.
- Check for leakage at the relief valve. (“Blip” the relief valve if it weeps to seat the valve.)
- Replace water heater door.
- Turn on the electric and/or gas control.

We’re also full-timers with water heater, Nautilus and black tank flush line leaks. Still working to fix the last. Good luck!

 

[M and E]

FYI - Shark bites fail in pressure tests waaaay before crimp fittings.

I had no idea (and i love learning that kind of stuff). Thanks!

 

[Lantley]

I had no idea (and i love learning that kind of stuff). Thanks!

While that is good to know. I had no idea either. That is good book knowledge but it is also classic analysis paralysis.
There is no need to avoid shark bites especially in an RV application over pressure.
I am in the plumbing business and we use shark bites where appropriate. My experience has been when put on securely shark bites NEVER leak.
Shark Bites have earned their place in the plumbing world. They are quick and easy . Especially for the DIY'er and they don't require any specialty tools.....that you may never use again.
Don't get me wrong I don't dispute crimping is better,but you need basic mechanical ability to crimp.....not everyone has basic mechanical ability.
Shark Bites are invaluable for their simplicity and effectiveness. I do not suggest eliminating Shark Bites from your repair arsenal.
Don't overthink this, avoiding Shark Bites due to fear of pressure failure is information overload. While it is not always the case, sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution.

 

[btempini]

Thanks for the input, I already have the crimping tool and have inspected all the fittings pretty thoroughly, those white fittings they use have some little tabs to ensure the spacing for the crimp is correct and all the crimps look tight but I’ll try putting the tool on and see if I can get a little extra out of them.

 

[btempini]

Might want to try dewater-logging your water heater. It costs nothing and is pretty easy.

- Turn off your electric heater element (and gas if it’s on) to prevent it from burning out. Not that it should but it might.
- Shut off water to the trailer.
- Remove the water heater door and carefully pull the lever on the temperature/pressure relief valve to slowly release any internal pressure on the water system.
- Fully open the relief valve and let it drain until it stops. (This will build an air pocket in the top of the water heater which allows for water expansion when heated without overpressuring piping.)
- Return the lever to the closed position.
- Turn water back on to trailer.
- Check for leakage at the relief valve. (“Blip” the relief valve if it weeps to seat the valve.)
- Replace water heater door.
- Turn on the electric and/or gas control.

We’re also full-timers with water heater, Nautilus and black tank flush line leaks. Still working to fix the last. Good luck!

Will definetley try this, thanks for the detailed instructions! Seems to me that it’s gotta be a pressure issue, and especially since it wasn’t leaking the first few months I had the camper this may be a likely culprit/solution.

 

[btempini]

While that is good to know. I had no idea either. That is good book knowledge but it is also classic analysis paralysis.
There is no need to avoid shark bites especially in an RV application over pressure.
I am in the plumbing business and we use shark bites where appropriate. My experience has been when put on securely shark bites NEVER leak.
Shark Bites have earned their place in the plumbing world. They are quick and easy . Especially for the DIY'er and they don't require any specialty tools.....that you may never use again.
Don't get me wrong I don't dispute crimping is better,but you need basic mechanical ability to crimp.....not everyone has basic mechanical ability.
Shark Bites are invaluable for their simplicity and effectiveness. I do not suggest eliminating Shark Bites from your repair arsenal.
Don't overthink this, avoiding Shark Bites due to fear of pressure failure is information overload. While it is not always the case, sometimes the simplest solution is the best the solution.

I completely agree, while I’m grateful for all the input, I love the sharkbite fittings. I’m no plumber, but I built a whole conversion van using pex and sharkbites and never had any leaks.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the factory crimps either, if they were faulty I would think leaks would always occur at the same spot. The pressure created from hot water heater seems to be creating weak points down the line until I’ve pushed it all the way back to the nautilus panel, and my worry is if I don’t correct the underlying pressure issue that I’ll just end up rebuilding the whole line to and from the hot water heater, or it leaks somewhere less obvious once I have these under control. I have a small expansion tank from my van build that I never used and may try installing that to see if it helps, I figure it can’t hurt to try.

 

[Lantley]

Why do you believe you have a pressure issue? I often have to tighten the compression fitting behind my panel. They simply seem to loosen over time but I am able to snug them up and stop the leak. Is it possible the crimps were never put on properly in the first place? That's why I mentioned Shark Bites have their place because of their simplicity they generally don't leak later.
Leaving heater on 24/7 is OK.
You can consider turning off gas and electric and draining heater totally and refill. You may have loss the air pocket in the heater. Sort of the built in expansion tank. Draining and refilling the heater will help ensure there is an air pocket. You may also consider replacing pressure relief valve. This valve should release or leak if pressure is too high vs. extreme pressure causing fitting to leak.
Assuming it's accessible changing the pressure relief is not hard to do, however replacing it is sort of like throwing parts at the problem however I don't know a way to test it before replacing other than putting a pressure meter in the system which I guess is doable but just replacing relief as a precaution is easier.

 

[M and E]

That is good book knowledge but it is also classic analysis paralysis.

Not really. Analysis paralysis means that we contemplate options so deeply that we never act or research past the point of it being useful. I want to be informed to make a decision. You being in the plumbing business and never seeing leaks with SharkBites, and that crimping is inarguably better, actually helps us avoid delaying a decision and acting, with a degree of confidence in whatever decision we make...allows us to act quickly and is appreciated!

 

[Lantley]

Not really. Analysis paralysis means that we contemplate options so deeply that we never act or research past the point of it being useful. I want to be informed to make a decision. You being in the plumbing business and never seeing leaks with SharkBites, and that crimping is inarguably better, actually helps us avoid delaying a decision and acting, with a degree of confidence in whatever decision we make...allows us to act quickly and is appreciated!

I get where your coming from. But the paralysis comes in when the analysis leads to the idea that Shark Bites are inferior to crimping, when in fact often they are a better method than crimping, especially for a novice.
Pressure never enters the equation and is a non factor, however the over analysis may lead one to believe pressure is the determining factor into choosing a coupling method. Mistakenly believing Shark Bites are somehow inferior to crimping and avoiding Shark Bite use is the paralysis.
Knowledge is power however too much knowledge can trip the breaker if you don't know how ,when and where to apply it

 

[George]

I respectfully disagree that Sharkbite fittings are a good permanent solution in an RV. Even Sharkbite recommends that in a high vibration application the pipe and fitting should be secured. I challenge anyone to secure all the PEX pipe in their RV. 🙃
I trust the opinions and solutions that "The RV Tech" provides on his Youtube channel. Skip ahead to about 15:45 to hear his opinion of them in this video.

 

[Lantley]

I respectfully disagree that Sharkbite fittings are a good permanent solution in an RV. Even Sharkbite recommends that in a high vibration application the pipe and fitting should be secured. I challenge anyone to secure all the PEX pipe in their RV. 🙃
I trust the opinions and solutions that "The RV Tech" provides on his Youtube channel. Skip ahead to about 15:45 to hear his opinion of them in this video.

Nice video George, I can agree you need to consider supporting shark bike fittings and the plumbing system in general more in an RV than in a stationary home. However I don't agree that Shark Bites come apart that easily when connected properly.
Sure you can get them apart with no tools if you apply pressure in the right place.
They are designed to have awy to get them apart. That doesn't generally happen by accident.
As far as the wear ring on the pipe, that is normally the shark bite digs into the pipe when securely attached and leaves a mark, that typical and really doesn't point to any kind of failure or leak.
Yes Shark bite fittings can leak, I had them leak on me, but generally the leaks I have encountered are caused by installation error.
The pipe is not pushed into the fitting far enough.
I don't mean to imply nothing in the video is valid. However I still counter don't be afraid of Shark Bites they are a easy effective way to connect plumbing pipes.
Shark Bites would have not quickly taken the plumbing world by storm if they leaked regularly.
They are now a household word among DIY'ers. Knock offs and copycats are appearing everywhere, even in the video!
Shark Bites are here to stay,you can choose to crimp exclusively which is not necessarily wrong, or you can take the simple way out and use Shark Bites when appropriate.

 

[RockDr896]

I have seen my share of "New Pipe types" in the heavy civil underground. I have even laid new pipe types for owners that wanted the cost savings and be the guinea pig for those new pipe types. They all failed within 20 to 30 years, compared to SDR-35 or schedule 40 (Around since 1960).

I will not argue the simplicity of the sharkbite fittings for a person who just needs a fix.

My perspective is a taking a longer view and the environment it is used in. The RV does not favor most building materials.

Sharkbite has only been out since 2004

Pex has been around since the 1980's and used in Europe back in the 60's and 70's.

If it were my house, I would use copper.
If it has to deal with large temperature swings and vibration, I would use Pex (Outdoor pool area or an RV)
If I need to just slam on a fitting to get things running again, I would use a sharkbite. I actually carry some caps and valves. However, it would not be a permanent fix.
Pick your poison folks!

 

[mboudoin]

I personally will never use the push to fit. Crip is the only way to go and brass is a must. I HATE the fact Alliance doesn't use brass through the RV.