Sponge area in floor

[Saurd]

Have a 2022 Avenue 30RLS. There is an area of the floor, high traffic, about 18 - 24 in square that is very sponge. It is just ahead of the island in the center. Started suspecting something mid last summer but while getting it ready this spring decided to inquire on the issue. No evidence of any type of water leaks anywhere roof or plumbing on the rig much less right in the middle, with waste tanks are beneath it.

Prior to going to the dealer would like to understand the basic floor construction of this model. Would anyone have the details, thickness of each layer & material in the floor and possibly a cross section view. Realizing it very well could have a foam core that may be compressing.

Then what is the best repair path? A fast inexpensive way to deal with the issue?

 

[M and E]

Maybe @RockDr896 can offer advice?

 

[Lantley]

I believe the Avenue have a laminated floor with a foam core
check out this prior thread
Prior Avenue Floor Post

 

[RockDr896]

Lantley is correct and here is what AI says. I would be curious to here what Alliance can do to correct the problem. Let us know how your concerns were addressed please!

Video Link....go to the 14:30 mark and you can see the flooring

I didn't like the idea, when I first saw this approach to flooring. It ties the owners to the manufacturer and eliminates any DIY opportunity to fix it themselves. If it really bothered me, I would be starting a new thread, as I convert it back to wood...LOL.

A more realistic approach, may be to cut out the area and weld in a solid piece of aluminum. After you cut the piece out, you could close the cut face with metal and then weld in whatever solution you need, to reinforce the area. I would then simply lay a new piece of vinyl flooring on top of the existing. It shouldn't affect the slides and other thresholds. I should have done that, when I replaced mine last month.

 

[RockDr896]

This got me thinking. I think the repair would need to tie into the cross bracing they include with their construction of the floor.

 

[Lantley]

Overall laminated flooring is a bad idea simply because it develops soft spots in the high traffic areas.
How soft? or how many softs spot occur is relative to how often the area is walked on and how heavy are the people doing the walking.
My last RV had a laminate floor and I had a couple of soft spots.
I learned to live with them, trying to repair them was more trouble than it was worth. Once I understood what the problem was and that I was not going to just fall thru I accepted the issue.
While I imagine some are better than others, Laminate floors are just a poor idea from the start in my mind.

 

[Jwtsg]

Agree,,,seems production “idea” that is decreased quality & performnce for owners

 

[Saurd]

Thank you to all who have helped the understanding of the issue. Bottom line the true fix is very $$$$ and no real DIY solution without major work. Has anyone received a response from Alliance regarding this issue? What are the long term affects of just living with the issue, how much will it degrade over time and what would be the ultimate failure point?

 

[RockDr896]

I would love to here what you are told, concerning a fix, if there is one. Please update this thread, if you get one.

I have been thinking about this today, while pressure washing my driveway..LOL. I think a welder could be avoided, if you use screws, to attach from crossbeam to crossbeam, with whatever aluminum reinforced patch you put in.

Can somebody try using a stud finder and see if it picks up the cross beams in the floor? If that works, then making the cut, would not be scary. I seriously doubt the floor has any real structural strength, to the overall rig. The walls are bolted to the outside frame, like continuous footings on a house. I am guessing, based on some research, you are looking at a 2 1/2" floor. Make sure your patch, attaches to the cross members and I think you would be fine.

So some bar napkin math here....
$328.72 for 25 feet of replacement Linoleum (I have a 370fb, so you would need less, so they sell it by the SqYd)
$188 to NC shipping
$200 Square tubing patch piece to bolt to cross members. Maybe allow a 1/8" hardwood board to screw on a a cap. I over priced this part.
$0.00 Remove island, slide wear bars, stairs, Side tables on back wall...... 1 day labor if you are young and call it 2 days if you are 60 like me. Maybe hire a remote RV repair guy and get a helper, as an alternative.
$0.00 Lay the new linoleum....1 to 2 days...depending on the glue cure time...lay over top of existing, making sure you put cut out piece of linoleum, back onto patch piece. You could put any piece. Could probably get a piece at a flooring store dumpster.
$0.00 Put it all back together if you are DIY (Call it 2 days again)
$100 in misc trim replacement.

So I think you could go DIY if it is within your comfort zone. I would also say, I personally, would not trust this kind of repair to a dealer.
You have 5 days, plus assembly of your aluminum patch piece.

Best of luck, but these are the considerations and ideas, for your review.

 

[Lantley]

The problem is often not as simple as adding structural support. The problem often occurs above or near the waste tanks.
The laminate floor is not study enough to span the size of the tank. Walking on the flooring above the tank creates a soft spot above the tank..
It's not possible to add a structural member above the tank. or in the space occupied by the tank
Laminate floors can quickly become a losing battle.

 

[RockDr896]

The cross members are above the tanks, from what I can see. They probably bolt to the frame. I would even consult with Alliance, before I attempted something like that and see what their reaction would be. I know square tubing would be stronger and superior to their current floor design. Maybe they just wanted to use more of their Azedel "In House" components, rather than buying wood.

It would be a big job and I would have to love the trailer, before I jumped into fixing it. It can be done though.

 

[Lantley]

The cross members are above the tanks, from what I can see. They probably bolt to the frame. I would even consult with Alliance, before I attempted something like that and see what their reaction would be. I know square tubing would be stronger and superior to their current floor design. Maybe they just wanted to use more of their Azedel "In House" components, rather than buying wood.

It would be a big job and I would have to love the trailer, before I jumped into fixing it. It can be done though.


View attachment 4975

No Doubt it can be done. But I decided on my last RV, fixing the problem was more trouble than it's worth vs. living with the soft spots.
I imagine if the soft spots really got to be more extensive serious problem I would take my lumps by trading the unit in for something else vs. attempting to fix it.

 

[Saurd]

Well it has been a while, but got back into this issue and received responses back from both the dealer and Alliance. The dealer was no help at all.
Here is what was sent -
First is the floor being spongy in the high traffic areas. No where near a water source. Have done a bit of research and see that is common with the floor design used in the Avenue line of RV’s. Roughly ¼” depression.

o

Here is the response from Alliance -

• Floor: The main deck floor in your unit is a full composite sheet so there will be deflection in the floor. ¼ deflections is completely normal in high traffic areas as the floor is one piece with no internal structure. I will get this noted on your vin but this would not be a warrantable concern at this time. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Much as eluded to in a few comments above, not much better then from the dealer. Not sure what to make of the 'warrantable concern at this time' is this implying if it gets worse it will be warrantable? Guess just wait and monitor is the path forward.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[George]

FWIW - The floor of our 2024 Paradigm uses what Alliance calls Truboard. All I've found online is a product called Trubord (note spelling) — which is seems to be just a brand name for wafer-wood / OSB. The current brochure refers to it as "true board".
The brochure for a Delta says it uses an "Aluminum frame floor with double composite layer & block foam insulation"

 

[Fishfnatic]

Our 2024 paradigm started creaking around the island towards back of camper last year. It is reallly not spongy but does creak. We are full time in it going on 3 years now. I figure it is wear from high traffic area.

 

[RockDr896]

FWIW - The floor of our 2024 Paradigm uses what Alliance calls Truboard. All I've found online is a product called Trubord (note spelling) — which is seems to be just a brand name for wafer-wood / OSB. The current brochure refers to it as "true board".
The brochure for a Delta says it uses an "Aluminum frame floor with double composite layer & block foam insulation"
View attachment 5241

So an interesting piece of knowledge I learned from a friend who has done flooring forever. If you followed my flooring experience, I eventually glued my new linoleum to the OSB/True board.
When I first tried to float it, like Alliance does, I could not get the waves out of the linoleum. When I eventually glued it, the inconsistencies of the OSB board, shows through the linoleum.

It isn't ugly, but I should have thrown down some 1/6" underlay...or...simply overlayed the existing linoleum. Would have saved me a lot of demo.

Apparently, there is a process to pre-tension the linoleum sheet, to relax the sheet. I am guessing Alliance does this. I don't know if the roll they use is pre-tensioned or what. The fix for us FYI guys, is to just glue to the existing linoleum, in my opinion. It will not affect your slides. I tested some LVP flooring and my slides were not impacted at all. So I have OSB textured Linoleum, but Jack Daniels smooths it all out..LOL!!

 

[Saurd]

Here is a bit more information on the same issue as it progressively worsened to double the .25" originally reported through the summer of using the camper rough every other weekend. I reached out the factory again to see what they had to say and not knowing how far this can be expected to go. After some interaction and gathering the information shown below





The Green tape represents the location of the floor supports based on a drawing provided by Alliance. The spot marked by the cross is the location of the measurement shown above. The location with the cross with the circle is slightly less then the .5".

The latest response from Alliance is the same as before

'Being a laminated floor, it will flex overtime. The floors are built like your wall being fiberglass and foam.'​

Understanding this is somewhat nature of the construction method used, but how far will this progress and at what point will the fatigue from flexing give way. Is compression of the foam or sagging to to much distance between the supports? I have asked these questions to Alliance as well.

Now considering repairs as mentioned above, especially if the issues continues to get worse and no support is given by Alliance.

Thanks a gain for all the feedback above and hope this could help others dealing with the same issue.

​

 

[RockDr896]

The pictures really help me understand the issue better. Maybe you can fix this like they do when a house settles and that is from underneath. If there is no tank where I drew the red line, you could use tubing and corner brackets to install addition support. You could use a bottle or floor jack to take out the deflection and get it screwed in place.

If this is just about the flooring being spongy and not the span needing more support, then I think there is nothing that can be done about that. You are in good company, with all the other victims of the RV industry's latest and greatest build methods.

 

[Lantley]

My experience with the foam floors is they won't get better. However they become tolerable at some point.
But again usage and traffic on the floor has an impact

 

[RockDr896]

Thinking about this issue, for the many whom have bought this configuration, there is a more animal approach to fixing it. When installing new linoleum in my 370FB (Due to a mistake I made)....you could pull the island (real easy and pictures on this forum)....pull the linoleum (Pic's on this forum)....cut out the floor in a specific place or why mess around and just cut shy of the outside walls. Drop in support brackets (Access from the underside) and then install OSB or marine plywood.....and then reinstall the linoleum. I know it is extreme, but it can be done. The linoleum is the seal to protect most RV floors from water anyway.

So Azadel is 50% less in weight compared to marine plywood....given the small SF involved...I doubt it makes a difference to the design of the trailer frame (weight of the flooring).... Most engineering has a safety factor built into it. I am guessing 2 to 1....so the frame should be fine (I would be willing to bet that).

So in closing, I offer the rockdr animal approach...everyone have fun beating me up....LOL!!