Our updates and an ask for guidance

[Ron ap Rhys]

We picked up a 252RL back on 4/27. Have had it out on one overnighter, just to test the systems and all out (yes, we did a thorough pre-buy inspection, but that doesn't take the place of running it for a night prior to any real camping). Some of the changes we've made already:

• The stock mattress leaves much to be desired, so that was replaced with one from RV Mattress. It's their 8" model and we'll have to see how that goes, but it's going to be an improvement over stock.
• Permanently mounted a soundbar under the TV, along with a subwoofer that bluetooths to the soundbar. The sub is permanently mounted under the dining room table via some L-brackets. It's out of the way and seems to work well.
• My wife has mounted various brackets and things for towels, toiletries, and the like.
• I used some foam to make a safe liquor storage area for the bottles in a cabinet behind the TV. This way the bottles are upright, won't touch each other, and won't get knocked around during travels.
• I did add in one additional solar panel.

Next on the list are three bigger projects that I'm starting into are power-related.

1. We've picked up a 3,000W Renogy inverter that I'm going to wire in. I've found the inverter prep wiring easy enough but have two questions on that:
   1. I see what appear 2 hot, 2 neutral, and 2 ground wires coming out.
      1. Anyone know why I've got two wires? Secondly, is it as simple as running a 3rd wire from those to the inverter and I'm done (at least with that side)? I'm comfortable on the battery side of things, just wondering on AC output side.
      2. Does anyone know if their pre-wiring causes the converter to shut off or will we need to kill that breaker every time we turn the inverter on? If that's the case, I think I'll want to put a transfer switch in there to automate that.
2. Right now I've got two Renogy LiFePo 100ah batteries up on the tongue, replacing the stock wet cell. My plan is to eventually have 4 of them so we can run the AC unit for a bit when off grid. Because of this, I'd like to move the batteries inside the unit and place them in the storage under the bed. That way temperature doesn't become a problem and it'll make it easier for me to work on things. I think I've heard of folks doing this, so does anyone have any pics and/or a wiring diagram that I can see?
   1. One annoyance I discovered when switching to the two battery set up is that Alliance doesn't have a solid unbroken wire running from wherever in the trailer to the battery. It runs out to near the battery and they've crimped an extender on that's got the battery connectors on it.
   2. I'm asking about this because, since I've got to do some wiring to get the inverter connected to the batteries, it seems like a good idea to also move the batteries and install the inverter all at one time.
3. Lastly, I'm going to hardwire in a surge protector. Nothing too fancy there, just wiring it in under the dining room seat where the current breakerbox sits.

In the future, probably next season, I'm also planning on doing further upgrades to the solar. That way we can really take advantage of having that inverter. Definitely 2 more panels (200W each). I'd love to get to a point where we could expect a mostly sunny day to charge up the batteries from overnight use such that we don't have run the gennie at all.

 

[Oregon_Camper]

Whoa...that is a lot on your "to do" list. I would ask that you break up this message into specific topic/questions and make them one post each. This way it is easier for folks to answer something they know about and can skip over topics they don't feel comfortable trying to answer.

 

[7ACMike]

Got to add my 2 cents to your post! We made it thru the 1st night with factory mattress and topper but by AM our 1st stop when up and about was the mattress store! 1 new 10" memory foam and I believe our 2nd night will be much better! I know everybody has their idea of the perfect mattress. The dealer told me I was welcome to throw it his pile of them as he was pretty sure we wouldn't use it many nights! Sounds like you got some nice projects. Good luck. 7ACmike

 

[darrell]

I am not sure your 3,000w inverter will cover the startup needs of the AC without a SoftStart, so you need to add that to your list. If not, you will likely trip your inverter every time the ac cycles on.
Here are my guesses:
1. two wires may mean that it is running to two separate circuits in your trailer. Maybe one for fridge and 1 for outlets. I am not sure what you are saying about the converter being shut off when using the inverter.
2. 400ah of batteries without a significant solar input or generator will not run an AC for very long. That is around 14,000 watts of DC power from the batteries, depending on cycling (which draws a lot, too). As a comparison, I have a small amount of load in my inverter in my trailer (15002 inverter that powers some computer stuff (all low power stuff) and my residential fridge. Without my solar, my 200ah of batteries will power the inverter for about 20-24 hours - and that is with the fridge already cooled. You are looking at 10x that load with just the AC running with only 2x the battery. Just want you to have the proper expectations. You do have some solar, but you can't always count on that, so ymmv with that one. Expect to get, at peak, about 2/3 of the rated watts to your batteries. On top of all that, you will need to reroute your AC to run off your inverter in addition to those other circuits. You will likely want a small subpanel for the inverter stuff if you keep moving stuff to it. Do you want to run one or two ACs off the inverter?

For the inverter, you are looking at some pretty serious cable size depending on the distance between the batteries and the inverter. I don't know how the Deltas are laid out, but you may be in 2/0 territory. Buy welding cable in whatever size you need, it is a lot easier to work with.

3. Hardwired is the way to go with the surge. I have had great luck with the Progressive stuff, others like Hughes. You can't really go wrong with either.

Please, anyone, feel free to correct anything I said - it has been a long day.

Best of luck with your build and keep us updated .

 

[Socal-Paul]

Two wires for the inverter, one is to connected to shore power so the inverter circuit works when hooked up to shore power the other connects to the inverter circuit when using the batteries/inverter. You will have to trace them to discover which is which, I plugged in the shore power line to the trailer then used the ohm meter on the other end of the line.

 

[darrell]

Two wires for the inverter, one is to connected to shore power so the inverter circuit works when hooked up to shore power the other connects to the inverter circuit when using the batteries/inverter. You will have to trace them to discover which is which, I plugged in the shore power line to the trailer then used the ohm meter on the other end of the line.

The AC side *should* be considerably smaller than the DC side, so it should make it easier to figure out which is which, right?

 

[BryanValRox]

Two wires for the inverter, one is to connected to shore power so the inverter circuit works when hooked up to shore power the other connects to the inverter circuit when using the batteries/inverter. You will have to trace them to discover which is which, I plugged in the shore power line to the trailer then used the ohm meter on the other end of the line.

Please, Please, Please, do not take this as a scolding! Please consider it an educational opportunity.
You made the statement that you plugged in shore power and used an ohm meter to identify a circuit.
A Multimeter set to ohms should never be used on a live circuit, you risk damage to your meter and quite possibly a shock risk to yourself.
If I have misunderstood your statement or misinterpreted it, you have my apologies. I just want to be sure that everyone that might be reading this is informed and treating electricity with the respect that it deserves to avoid possible injury or equipment damage.

 

[darrell]

Please, Please, Please, do not take this as a scolding! Please consider it an educational opportunity.
You made the statement that you plugged in shore power and used an ohm meter to identify a circuit.
A Multimeter set to ohms should never be used on a live circuit, you risk damage to your meter and quite possibly a shock risk to yourself.
If I have misunderstood your statement or misinterpreted it, you have my apologies. I just want to be sure that everyone that might be reading this is informed and treating electricity with the respect that it deserves to avoid possible injury or equipment damage.

All that and you will likely get an inaccurate read anyway.

 

[Socal-Paul]

There were no wires provided to connect the batteries to the inverter, suggest you look up the maker of the inverter and download the installation instructions. darrel I hooked up the female to the trailer and tested between the male and the prewiring in the forward compartment. At no time was there any power connected. Thank you for your concern.

 

[CaptTPT]

I just picked up my new Delta252RL. It sure would be great if Alliance provided us with a complete wiring diagram.

 

[Ron ap Rhys]

Everyone - OP here and apologies for the delay on my response. I appreciate the info that's everyone's given, just had a very busy last week or so that's kept me focused elsewhere.

1. I did reach out to Delta as well and got some feedback. One set comes from the breaker box and the other goes back to the panel. Given that, the inverter has to be wired in line with those (which I believe SoCal-Paul referred to).
2. Darrell - as you noted, yep, it'll be 2/0 or 4/0 wire, depending on the length I need to run. On the plus side, I do have a crimper for that and have run similar things on cars, so that shouldn't be too difficult. Also, I do know that just two batteries and AC wouldn't be a winning combo for any length of time. I do plan on adding more batteries and solar in the future. Much of this work is prep for that future state.
3. I did ask Delta about a wiring diagram - apparently that's a no go.

More to come when I get a second to work on things. Right now I'm dealing with us using it for actual camping three weekends in a row - which means I'm not working on it right now. Just enjoying it, which isn't a bad spot, no?

 

[Bozo]

I just picked up my new Delta252RL. It sure would be great if Alliance provided us with a complete wiring diagram.

Good luck with that.

 

[CaptTPT]

Everyone - OP here and apologies for the delay on my response. I appreciate the info that's everyone's given, just had a very busy last week or so that's kept me focused elsewhere.

1. I did reach out to Delta as well and got some feedback. One set comes from the breaker box and the other goes back to the panel. Given that, the inverter has to be wired in line with those (which I believe SoCal-Paul referred to).
2. Darrell - as you noted, yep, it'll be 2/0 or 4/0 wire, depending on the length I need to run. On the plus side, I do have a crimper for that and have run similar things on cars, so that shouldn't be too difficult. Also, I do know that just two batteries and AC wouldn't be a winning combo for any length of time. I do plan on adding more batteries and solar in the future. Much of this work is prep for that future state.
3. I did ask Delta about a wiring diagram - apparently that's a no go.

More to come when I get a second to work on things. Right now I'm dealing with us using it for actual camping three weekends in a row - which means I'm not working on it right now. Just enjoying it, which isn't a bad spot, no?

Not clear to me why there would be 2 sets of wires. One set would be the 120v power coming from the inverter going to the breaker box. What is the purpose of the second set? Are they the same size wires?

 

[darrell]

Not clear to me why there would be 2 sets of wires. One set would be the 120v power coming from the inverter going to the breaker box. What is the purpose of the second set? Are they the same size wires?

It may be the inverter is installed inline with 50 amp shore power, but outside of that, I don't really know why it would be connected back to the panel.

 

[CaptTPT]

I reviewed the install of an inverter described in another thread. The inverters provide 120v AC out, but they also require AC in from the panel. So, not in-line but separate lines. I’m guessing it’s a part of monitoring by the inverter.

 

[darrell]

In that case, the inverter must have an internal transfer switch.

 

[CaptTPT]

I just remembered some inverters are also chargers, so they take shore power from the panel to run the charger. Different circuits In the inverter.

 

[darrell]

I just remembered some inverters are also chargers, so they take shore power from the panel to run the charger. Different circuits In the inverter.

Possibly, but I would be surprised if Alliance is installing combo units. Would be a plausible explanation.