Helux pin box

[flyyboy1971]

Hello all. Just got my Paradigm home yesterday. Traded from a Brinkley(super happy that's gone).

I have a question about the Helix pin box. The brinkley had a Gen Y pinbox. That thing pulled SUPER STABLE. The new Paradigms come with the Curt Helix. On the way home yesterday with the Paradigm I had a ton(alot more than theGen Y) of left and right movement from the trailer. Especially around a turn or curve in the road while hitting minor potholes or seams where the the pavement meets.

This is quite concerning to me. It feels much less stable while driving down the road. We spend alot of time camping in Wyoming where the winds pick up to 30-40 mph and the Gen Y did a stellar job. I fear this Helix will be throwing the Paradigm all over the place if not a possible tip over?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[M and E]

Hello all. Just got my Paradigm home yesterday. Traded from a Brinkley(super happy that's gone).

I have a question about the Helix pin box. The brinkley had a Gen Y pinbox. That thing pulled SUPER STABLE. The new Paradigms come with the Curt Helix. On the way home yesterday with the Paradigm I had a ton(alot more than theGen Y) of left and right movement from the trailer. Especially around a turn or curve in the road while hitting minor potholes or seams where the the pavement meets.

This is quite concerning to me. It feels much less stable while driving down the road. We spend alot of time camping in Wyoming where the winds pick up to 30-40 mph and the Gen Y did a stellar job. I fear this Helix will be throwing the Paradigm all over the place if not a possible tip over?

Any thoughts?

Thanks

I have a Helux but moved to a Gen Y. But not because I disliked the hitch, I wanted and needed the bed. The Helux pulled pin straight and calm on a 24 F350, SRW with air bags and Bilstein on all four corners pulling a 25 340RL. The HItch was a B&W Companion Slider.

Were you pulling empty by chance? Maybe your pin weight is too low.

Does the hitch have any slop? I'd check that...and the tire pressures of the rig and your truck.

Alignment out of whack maybe?

An aside, there is a new DIY alignment tool.

Gyraline: The DIY Wheel Alignment Solution

Gyraline is an app and tool kit that allows anybody to do an extremely accurate four wheel alignment at home

gyraline.com

 

[flyyboy1971]

I have a Helux but moved to a Gen Y. But not because I disliked the hitch, I wanted and needed the bed. The Helux pulled pin straight and calm on a 24 F350, SRW with air bags and Bilstein on all four corners pulling a 25 340RL. The HItch was a B&W Companion Slider.

Were you pulling empty by chance? Maybe your pin weight is too low.

Does the hitch have any slop? I'd check that...and the tire pressures of the rig and your truck.

Alignment out of whack maybe?

An aside, there is a new DIY alignment tool.

Gyraline: The DIY Wheel Alignment Solution

Gyraline is an app and tool kit that allows anybody to do an extremely accurate four wheel alignment at home

gyraline.com

It was completely empty. Drove it off the lot and home, 1 hour. Didn't get to check the tire pressures but I'll do that tomorrow for sure.

Im running a Ram 3500 DRW. Self leveling air bags and mopar 30k lb hitch. Towed our 1st camper, 40' Solitude, then the 40' Brinkley with it. No issues till now.

Doing the shake down trip next weekend. So it'll be more loaded up. We'll see.

Thanks for the input!!!

 

[M and E]

It was completely empty. Drove it off the lot and home, 1 hour. Didn't get to check the tire pressures but I'll do that tomorrow for sure.

Im running a Ram 3500 DRW. Self leveling air bags and mopar 30k lb hitch. Towed our 1st camper, 40' Solitude, then the 40' Brinkley with it. No issues till now.

Doing the shake down trip next weekend. So it'll be more loaded up. We'll see.

Thanks for the input!!!

Good luck! Not that everyone likes the Helux, you'll find others here who don't like it and justifiably so for their own reasons, but the sway has not been shared as a concern that I recall. Hoping you can get it figured out. Nose high/low (likely not low with self leveling suspension) can cause sway too if suspension loading is impacted.

 

[Bozo]

I have a Helux but moved to a Gen Y. But not because I disliked the hitch, I wanted and needed the bed. The Helux pulled pin straight and calm on a 24 F350, SRW with air bags and Bilstein on all four corners pulling a 25 340RL. The HItch was a B&W Companion Slider.

Were you pulling empty by chance? Maybe your pin weight is too low.

Does the hitch have any slop? I'd check that...and the tire pressures of the rig and your truck.

Alignment out of whack maybe?

An aside, there is a new DIY alignment tool.

Gyraline: The DIY Wheel Alignment Solution

Gyraline is an app and tool kit that allows anybody to do an extremely accurate four wheel alignment at home

gyraline.com

Would be nice if they provided a video showing product in use.

 

[flyyboy1971]

Good luck! Not that everyone likes the Helux, you'll find others here who don't like it and justifiably so for their own reasons, but the sway has not been shared as a concern that I recall. Hoping you can get it figured out. Nose high/low (likely not low with self leveling suspension) can cause sway too if suspension loading is impacted.

Thanks. Im pretty level. From eyeballing anyway!

 

[brenkco]

I can't comment from 1st hand knowledge however, my mechanic picked up the rig with the Helix kingpin and towed it to his shop to do a pdi and install several options. He found the ride was subpar by a long shot. He said that when flexing down it was ok, on the way up it banged and chucked. We had already decided on an Andersen hitch. Since the Helix wasn't compatible, we swapped it out with a standard kingpin.

BTW, it tows like a dream. no chucking, no banging.

Ken

 

[flyyboy1971]

I can't comment from 1st hand knowledge however, my mechanic picked up the rig with the Helix kingpin and towed it to his shop to do a psi and install several options. He found the ride was subpar by a long shot. He said that when flexing down it was ok, on the way up it banged and chucked. We had already decided on an Andersen hitch. Since the Helix wasn't compatible, we swapped it out with a standard kingpin.

BTW, it tows like a dream. no chucking, no banging.

Ken

Thanks for the info. Ill look at Anderson!

 

[M and E]

Would be nice if they provided a video showing product in use.

It’s out there somewhere. I saw it; they were testing a rig with accelerometers or something. Gen Y too.

 

[BryanValRox]

Would be nice if they provided a video showing product in use.

Well, not sure this contains all of the detail your looking for but…………………

https://corporate.lippert.com//products/towing/5th-wheel/pin-boxes/helux

I do not believe the link is working correctly. Just head directly to the Lippert Site and drill down in the directory listed above.

 

[flyyboy1971]

I just noticed today. This camper is sitting fairly high above the Axles, high center of gravity. This paired with the Kurt TCS suspension could be the culprit of the swaying.

All I know is my old Solitude and the Brinkley rode super solid. Very little left and right action.
I hope this isnt normal because it was fairly tiring driving an hour home trying to control the truck.

I appreciate all the feedback. Hopefully we'll figure out a solution.

 

[Flyer32RLS]

We had already decided on an Andersen hitch. Since the Helix wasn't compatible, we swapped it out with a standard kingpin.

BTW, it tows like a dream. no chucking, no banging.

Ken

Not sure I am understanding this right. Are you saying your above statement is with the Anderson hitch? If so I agree. No chucking or banging. Solid connection!! Have used it with my last 3 5ers and it is pretty awesome!
BTW, I am sure you saw that video about the Anderson hitch failing and the OP stated he would not even ride in a vehicle with an Anderson Hitch installed. I laughed when I saw the post about the much praised B&W hitch failing!! Made by man, it can fail!!
Happy Glamping!!

 

[brenkco]

Yes, the Andersen hitch is fantastic IMHO

 

[Meanjean73]

I just noticed today. This camper is sitting fairly high above the Axles, high center of gravity. This paired with the Kurt TCS suspension could be the culprit of the swaying.

Just added a Helux to my 2024 310 and don’t notice any sway. Maybe it’s the TCS, I don’t have that.
Some chucking over hard bridge joints but rides well. I imagine the chucking I feel would be the same or worse with my original rotoflex pin box.

 

[Flyer32RLS]

Just added a Helux to my 2024 310 and don’t notice any sway. Maybe it’s the TCS, I don’t have that.
Some chucking over hard bridge joints but rides well. I imagine the chucking I feel would be the same or worse with my original rotoflex pin box.

I would think that it is the hitch that is allowing the chucking not the pin box.

 

[Stiletto364]

Obviously I don't know much about how your trailer is set up from your dealer since and what is in it (I'm assuming its pretty empty since you said you were driving it home) but it were me, I'd look at the following before convicting the HeLux as being responsible for the swaying:

1. Check the pin weight. 20 - 25% of the trailer's GVW should be on the pin, even empty. If it is under that, I'd load the trailer up as per your normal routine, get to a CAT scale and get pin weight within range and re-check if the trailer still behaves this way.
2. What was your speed while towing the trailer and noticing this behavior?
3. What was the trailer tire pressure before you departed the dealer? Were the tires properly inflated? Were the tow vehicle tire pressures properly inflated for the load?
4. Was the hitch & pin box properly set up to assure the trailer is towing level prior to departure? Was it a bit nose high?
5. How's the hitch head freeplay and lubrication on the hitch you were using in the truck bed?

 

[Meanjean73]

I would think that it is the hitch that is allowing the chucking not the pin box.

Interesting, can you expand on that? Would it be the same thing from any pin box that has suspension in it or just the Helux? Not trying to steal anyones thread but figured its on the same subject.

 

[Flyer32RLS]

Interesting, can you expand on that? Would it be the same thing from any pin box that has suspension in it or just the Helux? Not trying to steal anyones thread but figured its on the same subject.

Meanjean73, first I assume you are referring to the Helux coil-spring 5th wheel pin box. If so, the pin that hooks into the hitch is where the chucking occurs. From what I can tell, the Helux dampens the bouncing that occurs from the 5th wheel to the truck, like shock absorbers. With the Anderson hitch, the adapter device that, is part of the hitch, seats over the ball on the Anderson hitch providing a snug fit that does not have any room for chucking. Very much like hooking a boat to a normal ball hitch. I would guess that the Helux coil-spring would make the ride with the Anderson ride much smoother. Works good, last long time!
Happy Glamping!!

 

[M and E]

Meanjean73, first I assume you are referring to the Helux coil-spring 5th wheel pin box. If so, the pin that hooks into the hitch is where the chucking occurs.

You are 100% correct that chucking can occur at the kingpin hitch interface but that is only part of it. Outside of that interface the hitch head pivot, the frame between the axles and the kingpin, and the suspension of the truck/trailer (all of it) can cause chucking. I am not being contrary, you are correct; but there are lots of other elements that cause chucking. You can have perfect tolerances at the kingpin hitch interface and still have chucking. Owners of Anderson Ultimate, GenY, Curt HElux, etc., all report chucking with all three connection types. WIth these modern damped kingpins you can have slop at the interface and feel virtually no chucking, in theory...not that I have a ton of fifth wheel experience but suspension I get completely.

 

[flyyboy1971]

Obviously I don't know much about how your trailer is set up from your dealer since and what is in it (I'm assuming its pretty empty since you said you were driving it home) but it were me, I'd look at the following before convicting the HeLux as being responsible for the swaying:

1. Check the pin weight. 20 - 25% of the trailer's GVW should be on the pin, even empty. If it is under that, I'd load the trailer up as per your normal routine, get to a CAT scale and get pin weight within range and re-check if the trailer still behaves this way.
2. What was your speed while towing the trailer and noticing this behavior?
3. What was the trailer tire pressure before you departed the dealer? Were the tires properly inflated? Were the tow vehicle tire pressures properly inflated for the load?
4. Was the hitch & pin box properly set up to assure the trailer is towing level prior to departure? Was it a bit nose high?
5. How's the hitch head freeplay and lubrication on the hitch you were using in the truck bed?

Hey there. All good questions.

1. I will bring it to the scales. I always do that when taking possession of a new camper. It was completely empty as I was driving it home off the dealers lot. Im loaded up to a normal weight now as we are doing our 1st shake down trip in a few days!

2. The worst left and right motion happened during a curve such as a mixing bowl on/off ramps at around 40-50mph going over seams in concrete/ porholes. I was at highway speeds, 60-70mph most of the way. That was of course straight aways but It still had a fairly unstable feeling. 60-70mph was completely stable with my previous 2 campers.

3. Tire pressures on the camper is 123psi out of 125.
On the truck I run 80psi on the fronts 65 on the rear dually's.

4. I havent checked for perfect level when the unit is hooked up. Before leaving the dealership I had a fist & thumb height plus about another inch. By eyeball it appeared to be ever so slightly nose high. I have one more adjustment to lower the nose about another inch if needed.

5. I have a 30klb Mopar hitch(came with the truck). Its operating normally, lubed up, and seems to have the proper tension. It pulled fine when bringing the Brinkley for trade that same day.