Finally using an existing and proven air conditioning system (Automotive grade)

[RockDr896]

Expect to see more of these kind of changes in trucks and RV's. The paper pushing/number crunching CEO's are starting to either adapt or will go away. Somewhere between Alliance, Brinkley, and other emerging startups will force this kind of change. I also think the professional engineers (the alleged experts) are going to hopefully face greater scrutiny of their designs (I know...a prediction of hope that is not rooted in any clear signs of the facts today).

1st the messenger: I was wary of this RV Tech guy. He apparently has some agreement with Alliance....however here he is covering Brinkley in a positive light. Having viewed a fair amount of his content, I rarely finish each video. He tends to play the neutral line and blabs on to long to preserve the relationships with all the manufacturers he wants to play nice with. I do like his approach to his content (Being a service guy) and keeps asking the question we all ask. Why are we not making these systems durable, serviceable, and for the same price point? So I continue to watch him.

2nd thing is why am I posting this: I think Brinkley is doing something cool with AC. I would like to hear what all of you DIY guys think on this topic. My first reaction, is that it opens up the number of workers that can fix this system and now extends to AC companies (Provided parts are not a problem). However, we now have to buy intake filters (They are not common hardware store filters). So if Alliance thinks this is a good idea and implements it in future builds...it means more pressure on their already failed replacement parts operation (Not working weekends and absolutely slow delivery). In all fairness, I could be wrong on the systems manufacturer's ability to sell and deliver replacement parts. Maybe Brinkley/Alliance is not needed to be a player in the replacement parts side. The last thought, is that they are not installing a system made for a house. They are installing a system, already made for the vibration of the road and time tested (I think). Meaning, without specifics, these things may still break a lot, even on fire trucks. I know, I replaced cab AC units on my rock trenchers, every 3 years. They were in the most dusting conditions you could imagine and don't get me started on vibration.

3rd thing: Tankless water heaters will be a fail for the RV industry. Propane limitations at higher elevations, safety switches shutting off because of water pressure, and the boon dockers need to not waste water, while they wait for hot water to make it's way to the fixture. I know of no innovation that can be made here, except a system, that can capture and redirect the unheated water. Who in the hell, would trust that system? It would be a trust in electronic valving, I would never believe in. They do exist though.

In closing: Have fun thinking about this topic!! I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!

 

[Lantley]

So believe it or not I was at the Hershey RV show Today and I saw that Brinkley air conditioning system. And I couldn't figure out what was going on but I will say it was quiet and efficient. No I did not know it was installed underneath or anything revealed in the video but I did realize it was ducted and it did not appear to be any units on the roof.
So I was impressed with its operation, However like everything in the RV industry I'm not ready for the first generation of anything. The RV industry has not shown that they can figure anything out. Slide outs have been around for years. Slide outs or a feature unique to the RV industry and yet they're still trying to figure them out.
So in time I agree this A/C system maybe a revolutionary solution. But I'm not very excited just yet I'll let someone else be the Guinea pig.
I am also curious if the new system is 12 Volt or 110 volts. I was impressed with the performance of some of 12 Volt systems on display at the Hershey Show.
Personally I'm a big fan of mini splits. They are very versatile,have been in use for a while and can be adapted to RV use.
However the 12 Volt systems may have an edge over mini splits because they are still 110.

Only time will tell, while I must admit the system I saw today at the show seemed to be working very well, I'm not sold that this new Brinkley system will be the wave of the future. I think the guy in the video has a lot more faith in RV industry's engineering ability than I do.
Tankless water heaters and 12 Volt refrigerators are two of the latest appliances produced by the RV industry.
In my mind they don't have either one of those figured out yet. Both of those appliances are very critical, However neither one is as important as air conditioning on a hot day. The new Brinkley AC system does show promise, but I'm a long way from jumping on the bandwagon.

Sort of a side note but I was more impressed with the overall Brinkley unit than I had been in the past. In the past I thought the Brinkley interiors were a bit stark and underwhelming. However I do like the new interiors. They now have some modern appeal and no longer looked like something from an army barrack.

 

[BryanValRox]

Expect to see more of these kind of changes in trucks and RV's. The paper pushing/number crunching CEO's are starting to either adapt or will go away. Somewhere between Alliance, Brinkley, and other emerging startups will force this kind of change. I also think the professional engineers (the alleged experts) are going to hopefully face greater scrutiny of their designs (I know...a prediction of hope that is not rooted in any clear signs of the facts today).

1st the messenger: I was wary of this RV Tech guy. He apparently has some agreement with Alliance....however here he is covering Brinkley in a positive light. Having viewed a fair amount of his content, I rarely finish each video. He tends to play the neutral line and blabs on to long to preserve the relationships with all the manufacturers he wants to play nice with. I do like his approach to his content (Being a service guy) and keeps asking the question we all ask. Why are we not making these systems durable, serviceable, and for the same price point? So I continue to watch him.

2nd thing is why am I posting this: I think Brinkley is doing something cool with AC. I would like to hear what all of you DIY guys think on this topic. My first reaction, is that it opens up the number of workers that can fix this system and now extends to AC companies (Provided parts are not a problem). However, we now have to buy intake filters (They are not common hardware store filters). So if Alliance thinks this is a good idea and implements it in future builds...it means more pressure on their already failed replacement parts operation (Not working weekends and absolutely slow delivery). In all fairness, I could be wrong on the systems manufacturer's ability to sell and deliver replacement parts. Maybe Brinkley/Alliance is not needed to be a player in the replacement parts side. The last thought, is that they are not installing a system made for a house. They are installing a system, already made for the vibration of the road and time tested (I think). Meaning, without specifics, these things may still break a lot, even on fire trucks. I know, I replaced cab AC units on my rock trenchers, every 3 years. They were in the most dusting conditions you could imagine and don't get me started on vibration.

3rd thing: Tankless water heaters will be a fail for the RV industry. Propane limitations at higher elevations, safety switches shutting off because of water pressure, and the boon dockers need to not waste water, while they wait for hot water to make it's way to the fixture. I know of no innovation that can be made here, except a system, that can capture and redirect the unheated water. Who in the hell, would trust that system? It would be a trust in electronic valving, I would never believe in. They do exist though.

In closing: Have fun thinking about this topic!! I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!

Well, it all sounds great on the surface! Certainly it is a new approach and would seem to have merit.
A positive would be reduced over all height of the coach.

The 10,000 foot concerns after watching the video would be ” What powers it AC/DC or both? Can this system be supported by both 30 amp and 50 amp services? It would appear that air flow is now heavily depended on ducting. Not trying to be Debbie downer, but my personal experience is that of collapsed and restricted duct work. OEM’s would need to step of their game on the assembly line when installing duct work.
Given what appears to be the condenser assembly is mouned below the rig, he failed to mention where the evaporator is located. It would seem the condenser assembly would be exposed to road debris(maybe no different then roof top tree limb damage). Again given the lower mounting and fan operation, what about campsite conversations being impacted by the noise, what about the air flow exiting the assembly, will owners be sitting in hot drafts? Will the air flow kick up dust from the stone based campsites? He mentioned redundancy, but didn’t go into details except talk about fan speed as I recall. One of the reasons we bought Alliance was the 3 separated and independent Ac’s, I viewed this as a robust redundancy strategy. There is no mention of a weight savings or penalty .

Just offering some thoughts, not taking a position one way or the other, it could turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

I will say this, I would be open to exploring the pros and cons first hand if Brinkley would loan us a rig for a week or two to check it out personally at real world campsites.

Thoughts according to Bryan! 🤣

 

[M and E]

Well, it all sounds great on the surface! Certainly it is a new approach and would seem to have merit.
A positive would be reduced over all height of the coach.

The 10,000 foot concerns after watching the video would be ” What powers it AC/DC or both? Can this system be supported by both 30 amp and 50 amp services? It would appear that air flow is now heavily depended on ducting. Not trying to be Debbie downer, but my personal experience is that of collapsed and restricted duct work. OEM’s would need to step of their game on the assembly line when installing duct work.
Given what appears to be the condenser assembly is mouned below the rig, he failed to mention where the evaporator is located. It would seem the condenser assembly would be exposed to road debris(maybe no different then roof top tree limb damage). Again given the lower mounting and fan operation, what about campsite conversations being impacted by the noise, what about the air flow exiting the assembly, will owners be sitting in hot drafts? Will the air flow kick up dust from the stone based campsites? He mentioned redundancy, but didn’t go into details except talk about fan speed as I recall. One of the reasons we bought Alliance was the 3 separated and independent Ac’s, I viewed this as a robust redundancy strategy. There is no mention of a weight savings or penalty .

Just offering some thoughts, not taking a position one way or the other, it could turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread.

I will say this, I would be open to exploring the pros and cons first hand if Brinkley would loan us a rig for a week or two to check it out personally at real world campsites.

Thoughts according to Bryan! 🤣

Those are all really good observations and not a Debbie Downer in the least bit. I didn't think of all that stuff until I read your post. But I can't help but ask the question ....Who hurt you, Bryan? I bet it was Lippert. Scoundrels.

 

[Jwtsg]

Expect to see more of these kind of changes in trucks and RV's. The paper pushing/number crunching CEO's are starting to either adapt or will go away. Somewhere between Alliance, Brinkley, and other emerging startups will force this kind of change. I also think the professional engineers (the alleged experts) are going to hopefully face greater scrutiny of their designs (I know...a prediction of hope that is not rooted in any clear signs of the facts today).

1st the messenger: I was wary of this RV Tech guy. He apparently has some agreement with Alliance....however here he is covering Brinkley in a positive light. Having viewed a fair amount of his content, I rarely finish each video. He tends to play the neutral line and blabs on to long to preserve the relationships with all the manufacturers he wants to play nice with. I do like his approach to his content (Being a service guy) and keeps asking the question we all ask. Why are we not making these systems durable, serviceable, and for the same price point? So I continue to watch him.

2nd thing is why am I posting this: I think Brinkley is doing something cool with AC. I would like to hear what all of you DIY guys think on this topic. My first reaction, is that it opens up the number of workers that can fix this system and now extends to AC companies (Provided parts are not a problem). However, we now have to buy intake filters (They are not common hardware store filters). So if Alliance thinks this is a good idea and implements it in future builds...it means more pressure on their already failed replacement parts operation (Not working weekends and absolutely slow delivery). In all fairness, I could be wrong on the systems manufacturer's ability to sell and deliver replacement parts. Maybe Brinkley/Alliance is not needed to be a player in the replacement parts side. The last thought, is that they are not installing a system made for a house. They are installing a system, already made for the vibration of the road and time tested (I think). Meaning, without specifics, these things may still break a lot, even on fire trucks. I know, I replaced cab AC units on my rock trenchers, every 3 years. They were in the most dusting conditions you could imagine and don't get me started on vibration.

3rd thing: Tankless water heaters will be a fail for the RV industry. Propane limitations at higher elevations, safety switches shutting off because of water pressure, and the boon dockers need to not waste water, while they wait for hot water to make it's way to the fixture. I know of no innovation that can be made here, except a system, that can capture and redirect the unheated water. Who in the hell, would trust that system? It would be a trust in electronic valving, I would never believe in. They do exist though.

In closing: Have fun thinking about this topic!! I look forward to hearing your thoughts!!

Agree w items 1 & 2. Item 3 not so much. We live in our Paradigm 382 RK full time in a stationary setup. We have a stackable washer & dryer & live in the Cascades foothills & love our tankless water heater. Had one in our 38’ tow behind & camped cold weather @ 6-7 k for extended periods w no issues & love our long, hot showers! Different strokes for different folks on that issue imho👍!

 

[Lantley]

Agree w items 1 & 2. Item 3 not so much. We live in our Paradigm 382 RK full time in a stationary setup. We have a stackable washer & dryer & live in the Cascades foothills & love our tankless water heater. Had one in our 38’ tow behind & camped cold weather @ 6-7 k for extended periods w no issues & love our long, hot showers! Different strokes for different folks on that issue imho👍!

Stationary setup is an entirely different scenario your typical RV situation. I imagine you are connected to a sewer full time. The waste and delay that you experience with your water is similar to what happens in a sticks and bricks home. I have a tankless water heater at my house and I experience delays and waste of water and all that goes with it. However in my house as as in a stationary RV, the water just goes down the drain and who cares. There are no waste tanks or fresh tanks involved. You're not trying to conserve and or monitor your water usage.
Tankless water heaters are a great thing in a home, but they're not such a great thing in an RV.
A stationary RV from a plumbing standpoint is similar to home and a tankless water heater can be beneficial. However tankless in an RV has more shortcomings than benefits.

 

[Jwtsg]

Stationary setup is an entirely different scenario your typical RV situation. I imagine you are connected to a sewer full time. The waste and delay that you experience with your water is similar to what happens in a sticks and bricks home. I have a tankless water heater at my house and I experience delays and waste of water and all that goes with it. However in my house as as in a stationary RV, the water just goes down the drain and who cares. There are no waste tanks or fresh tanks involved. You're not trying to conserve and or monitor your water usage.
Tankless water heaters are a great thing in a home, but they're not such a great thing in an RV.
A stationary RV from a plumbing standpoint is similar to home and a tankless water heater can be beneficial. However tankless in an RV has more shortcomings than benefits.

Agree stationery is an entirely different situation,,,in our towable was able to use the tanks & found the tankless hot water lag did waste some water but with hookups did not create an untenable situations w the tank in my opinion

 

[Fishfnatic]

The flagstaff bumper pull we had before alliance had a switch I don’t remember if in shower head or on hot cold valves, you could flip where it ran water back to tank until heated to conserve water when needed. Never needed it as always stayed at hookups.

 

[Socal-Paul]

Some make it sound like we're wasting gallons of water every time the hot water is turned on. I was curious as to how much water we're wasting so I timed how long it took our tankless to bring the temperature up to our set temperature of 113 degrees. Time taken was about 20 seconds, figuring 1.8 gpm shower heat that would be a little over .6 gallons of water "wasted" unless my math is off which is entirely possible. Obviously the time it takes to get to any fixture is going to be dependent on the length of the run.

 

[Lantley]

Some make it sound like we're wasting gallons of water every time the hot water is turned on. I was curious as to how much water we're wasting so I timed how long it took our tankless to bring the temperature up to our set temperature of 113 degrees. Time taken was about 20 seconds, figuring 1.8 gpm shower heat that would be a little over .6 gallons of water "wasted" unless my math is off which is entirely possible. Obviously the time it takes to get to any fixture is going to be dependent on the length of the run.

.6 Gallons can be a lot when you're dealing with a 40 gallon tank. Secondly you're in Southern California where the water is warmer coming into the heater vs. being in a colder environment .6 can be a larger number if you're somewhere that's cold.
Lastly 113 degrees isn't very hot. I consider that sort of lukewarm. I Like my water hot and set my home tankless to 130ºf.
We can debate how much water a tankless waste due to delay factor. The volume of wastewater will vary depending on a few factors.
In the end that delay factor is a shortcoming of all tankless heaters. That delay becomes a deal breaker for many including myself when it comes to RV tankless,simply because unless you're on full hookup, an RV has limits on the amount of water they can carry and or store. Wasting water can strain both the fresh water and wastewater tanks.

 

[Socal-Paul]

Lantley

.6 Gallons can be a lot when you're dealing with a 40 gallon tank. Agree

Secondly you're in Southern California where the water is warmer coming into the heater vs. being in a colder environment .6 can be a larger number if you're somewhere that's cold.
Your assumption that we only travel in SoCal and where it’s warm is wrong.

Lastly 113 degrees isn't very hot.
Your correct the standard recommendation for tap water is 120 degrees. In our 22ML 113 degrees was the point where we could comfortably shower without adding cold water making adjustments unnecessary. In the 23ML 113 is too hot for us and we add cold water. I probably should lower the temperature. I don’t know what the actual temperature was or is but appreciate the fact that it can be changed.

Different needs and ideas are why there are options. I was curious, never presented this as a scientific study. I apologize for hitting a nerve, as you can see you also hit one.

Presently in Waterville Maine where it is warm today.

 

[Lantley]

Lantley

.6 Gallons can be a lot when you're dealing with a 40 gallon tank. Agree

Secondly you're in Southern California where the water is warmer coming into the heater vs. being in a colder environment .6 can be a larger number if you're somewhere that's cold.
Your assumption that we only travel in SoCal and where it’s warm is wrong.

Lastly 113 degrees isn't very hot.
Your correct the standard recommendation for tap water is 120 degrees. In our 22ML 113 degrees was the point where we could comfortably shower without adding cold water making adjustments unnecessary. In the 23ML 113 is too hot for us and we add cold water. I probably should lower the temperature. I don’t know what the actual temperature was or is but appreciate the fact that it can be changed.

Different needs and ideas are why there are options. I was curious, never presented this as a scientific study. I apologize for hitting a nerve, as you can see you also hit one.

Presently in Waterville Maine where it is warm today.

You don't have to apologize for striking a nerve. I read these forums and participate strictly for fun. I don't take them seriously enough to strike a nerve. There are comments I agree with and there are comments I disagree with. None of them upset me or strike a nerve because it's just not that important. The entire forum is strictly for entertainment and enjoyment purposes. I don't take any of it seriously enough to strike a nerve.
I was anti RV tankless guy long before your post. I have a tankless water heater at my house and I understand the pitfalls and why they are not a good idea for RV's.
"Some make it sound like we're wasting gallons of water every time the hot water is turned on" I am definitely part of the crowd that believes RV tankless waste too much water!

 

[RockDr896]

You don't have to apologize for striking a nerve. I read these forums and participate strictly for fun. I don't take them seriously enough to strike a nerve. There are comments I agree with and there are comments I disagree with. None of them upset me or strike a nerve because it's just not that important. The entire forum is strictly for entertainment and enjoyment purposes. I don't take any of it seriously enough to strike a nerve.
I was anti RV tankless guy long before your post. I have a tankless water heater at my house and I understand the pitfalls and why they are not a good idea for RV's.
"Some make it sound like we're wasting gallons of water every time the hot water is turned on" I am definitely part of the crowd that believes RV tankless waste too much water!

I appreciate you throwing down your math for all to consider. It's a fearless move that is viewed in my world as "Prove me wrong....or educate me further" I respect the effort and will be watching the forums, for real life use of Alliance decision to go that direction.

There are so many variables, it is a good starting point. My personal experiences with those heaters....makes me think pipes need to be upsized to add volume. So 1/2" Needs to be 3/4".....I am speaking out of my ignorance of fluid mechanics.

I just know, that is how municipal water lines work. Without volume... all the showers in the neighborhood, are barely getting you wet.

This is also why a well system has a bladder system (Pressure)...feeding into a hot water tank (Volume)....and the design of the system, is betting the well pump can either replace the missing water, before you demand more.

If I were to drive a nail into my opinion regarding hot water heaters, it would be propane at elevation's that affect it's BTU's. Maybe someone can speak to having used one in cold weather? If you will never be there, than I expect your experience will prevail. Glad you chimed in on the subject!!

Damn...I was meaning to reply to Socal-Paul...