• Click here to access some of the presentations made during the 2022 National Rally

Battery drain while in storage with both disconnects " OFF"

5

56Jeff

Member
For the 2nd or 3 time, we go back to the storage yard, and discover the battery is again drained enough NOT to operate landing gear. It's thought the Solar and frige do the draining, but we can not confirm that yet. Once backed in the door can not be opened up to inspect things. The disconnects should kill everything. I thought I read somewhere a while back there may be a wire landed incorrectly, but i can't find that post either. Anyone else experience this, or what am i missing? I rather learn what the issue is or what I am doing wrong over pulling battery cables off the RV. Somthing is bypassing the disconnects, I just don't know what or why.

OR if anyone has a wireing diagram for a 2025 29RL, that would help too.

29rl elect 0.jpg
 
Last edited:
Oregon_Camper

Oregon_Camper

Forum Admin
Staff member
I don't think Alliance puts the 12v frig on the cutoff switch. Meaning the frig will stay on, even with the cutoff switch turned off.

I did a test on our 12v Norcold frig a while back and it was shocking by just how much power it used. It used over 113.4Ah in 25.5 hours…and then almost 163Ah after 36hrs. This was a controlled test, in our barn with zero solar charging. The post with images and more info can be found here

Not sure how solar you have, but for an example you can expect about 16 amps at 12 volts from a 300-watt panel at PEAK performance. Lets say you really get 12 amps and ~6 hours of perfect/direct sunlight. That puts you are ~72 amps being put int the battery bank per day, but the frig is using about 100 amp hours per day. This means most folks battery bank will be dead in a few days. You can install a disconnect off the NEG terminal and ALL power will finally be cut off or go inside and turn off the frig when storing the RV.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
I Agree with you, I went back out & dinked with it, the Frig light ever goes out if we have 2 switches & shore power off. We store under a roof, so it gets zero light.

IF, I must, I will get a little solar trickle charger, and put it on the hitch which gets sun. I rather have a kill switch.
 
Oregon_Camper

Oregon_Camper

Forum Admin
Staff member
56Jeff said:
I Agree with you, I went back out & dinked with it, the Frig light ever goes out if we have 2 switches & shore power off. We store under a roof, so it gets zero light.

IF, I must, I will get a little solar trickle charger, and put it on the hitch which gets sun. I rather have a kill switch.
Click to expand...
A small solar panel will do nothing for you. Either add another disconnect switch off NEG terminal or power off frig inside RV.
 
Giant

Giant

Member
I’m having the same issue. My rig gets stored indoors with both battery and solar disconnects turned off AND the fridge turned off. After putting it away with a full 400ah battery, 2.5 weeks later it’s totally dead. Something besides the fridge is bypassing the disconnect, but I can’t figure out what the draw is. Could it be the solar charge controller? I put an isolator switch in my old rig that disconnected both the solar panels from the SCC, and the SCC from the battery. I have not investigated whether Alliance set my 295 up that way, but I suspect not.
 
Oregon_Camper

Oregon_Camper

Forum Admin
Staff member
Giant said:
I’m having the same issue. My rig gets stored indoors with both battery and solar disconnects turned off AND the fridge turned off. After putting it away with a full 400ah battery, 2.5 weeks later it’s totally dead.
Click to expand...
It really is a bummer the factory disconnect doesn't disconnect all 12v power. There must be a reason, we don't know about. I am guess the CO2 detector must always be on for safety, but this is just a guess. For under $20 an aftermarket disconnect like this will solve all your issues. If you have a larger inverter (say >2000 watts) then I would recommend a heavier duty cutoff switch that can handle the larger amp draw.

1763495062214.png
 
Giant

Giant

Member
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your input. I have the super solar package so I think I’m just going to go back to what worked on the system I built on my old rig: a isolator switch to completely cut off the solar panels from the SCC, and then re-wire the factory solar shutoff to disconnect the SCC from the battery. I’ll probably have to re-wire the main shutoff, too. Frustrating, but I’m sure they have a reason.
 
Oregon_Camper

Oregon_Camper

Forum Admin
Staff member
Giant said:
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your input. I have the super solar package so I think I’m just going to go back to what worked on the system I built on my old rig: a isolator switch to completely cut off the solar panels from the SCC, and then re-wire the factory solar shutoff to disconnect the SCC from the battery. I’ll probably have to re-wire the main shutoff, too. Frustrating, but I’m sure they have a reason.
Click to expand...
As you can see, my factory system is gone and I replaced everything. Key to me, was having 2 disconnects (well..3 if you count the solar in upper right). #1 will stop all 12v going to RV...everything! #2 will shut off 12v going to/from Victron Inverter/charger.
1763529420099.png
 
R

RockDr896

Well-known member
on my 370FB I had to place a 30 amp isolator switch before my charger. I also park my rig in a dark warehouse and the solar panels and charger would run my batteries down, because the two were always waking each other up. Eventually, my Renogy inverter bricked. I was able to bypass the inverter by removing and wire nut the wires shown, so problem averted until I received a replacement.

I was thinking of maybe putting a 60amp changeover switch, so I can either
0=Shut it off
1= Resume as normal
2 =bypass Inverter

What do you guys think of this? Would it work, or is there a better idea?


Explanation of rotary switch
 

Attachments

  • 1763635488928.png
    1763635488928.png
    464.2 KB · Views: 5
  • 1763635761603.png
    1763635761603.png
    587.6 KB · Views: 5
  • 1763639066628.png
    1763639066628.png
    217.6 KB · Views: 5
Last edited:
R

RockDr896

Well-known member
So an electrical engineer friend has pointed me to this switch. I will be buying two of these. One for AC and the other for DC. It will do the following:

ROTARY SWITCH #1 = AC 60 amp
0 = AC OFF
1 = AC On as designed
2= AC bypass the inverter

ROTARY SWITCH #2 = DC 60 amp
0 = DC OFF
2 = DC ON as designed
3 = DC bypasses the inverter

 
5

56Jeff

Member
I have decided that the 12v furion frig is directly wired to the battery some way. I not sure why, but I suspect it needs 12v for some " health" reason. So to make the world simpler for me, I am adding a little solar panel to the front hitch while in under roof storage to keep the battery charged. I need to get with Furion / Alliance to understand this, and see if it wa wired correctly.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
RockDr896 said:
So an electrical engineer friend has pointed me to this switch. I will be buying two of these. One for AC and the other for DC. It will do the following:

ROTARY SWITCH #1 = AC 60 amp
0 = AC OFF
1 = AC On as designed
2= AC bypass the inverter

ROTARY SWITCH #2 = DC 60 amp
0 = DC OFF
2 = DC ON as designed
3 = DC bypasses the inverter

Click to expand...
very cool. My older brother is a EE of 40 years and a solar nut. Currently working at NASA. of course we are 8 hours apart so next trip that way, we'll do some deep diving. meanwhile I am adding a solar pnl to keep the battery charged while in storage.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
Oregon_Camper said:
A small solar panel will do nothing for you. Either add another disconnect switch off NEG terminal or power off frig inside RV.
Click to expand...
The solar pnl won't keep the battery charged? I am more worried why its wired that way and suspisious the Furion Frig needs power for some hidden reason to stay healthy. I still digging.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
I can't understand why more folks have not jumped on this and said, " We too" have this issue. Sorta leads me to think there is wire landed incorrectly. I shold have time this week to chase Alliance, Lippert and Furion for answers.
 
R

RockDr896

Well-known member
I am of the belief, that the inverter is making the decisions as to what power source it will use, when "Shore power" is no longer available. This is why I am going to add the shut offs at the inverter (Adding the re-wire to get by scenario". Shut off AC and DC supply and the inverter will act like the Maytag repair guy...LOL

The other reason, is that I had my inverter brick and while on the phone with Alliance, I had to disconnect solar (Because it would impact voltage readings). All of these things are just problematic, when it's hot at camp and domestic pressure, along with an Alliance tech is having you disconnect crap. Knowing I may someday be in the old "Dead" inverter, I am going to make it a simple process. For the cost of a few switches, I can quickly make changes and deal with what is broke, after the fog of the electrical war is over.

Don't even get me started about a solar panel on the roof and there is a "Hot skin" issue. I was told by Alliance, that the RV industry does not accept the NEC (National Electrical Code) concerning the wiring of solar panels!! Residential NEC code requires the shut off to be on the Neg and Pos wiring...A trailer is grounded to the frame (Hence hot skin if there is a short)...I at least have a shot of flipping a switch, as opposed to climbing on the roof and disconnecting the panels. Not to mention the 370FB recall concerning them having used wire nuts at the roof connection. I guess I did get myself started on this subject..LOL

I have given up asking Alliance engineers for advice at this 3rd year of owning a rig. I find much better advice and work around ideas here and my blue collar network of friends. RV manufacturers are really run by the ivory tower of finance and legal strategies. It is also shooting itself in the foot, by their dealer networks. They have a long way to go.
 
K

KCAlis

Member
Two things.
First, our ‘25 310RL with the Furrion 20 fridge does NOT have a switch between it and the battery.
Second, poor wiring installation by Alliance resulted in a high resistance connection which caused low voltage to the fridge. I maintain that it was this low voltage that the circuit board was trying to step up which resulted in the board failing. We lost our freezer contents and all of the perishables in the fridge.
Like Oregon, I don’t believe a solar trickle charger will prevent discharge which will lead to the same place if de-energizing will result in damage to the fridge. Just a data point, Alliance ships all of their RVs without batteries. The dealership makes the choice of what you get at purchase. (Don’t get me started on that!) So the fridge is dead for at least transit time.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
I wonder if Alliance will get me a wiring diagram, so I can easiely identify where to put a cutoff switch if I end up on that rout.
 
5

56Jeff

Member
Solution to the Problem incase anyone else has this.
The 12v Furrion is wired so it always gets power, on my Unit, It is a Yellow wire with a inline molded 20A spade fuse holder.
I moved this wire to the downstream of the main disconnect. When the disconnect is open, the downstream has no power.
Alliance confirmed the 12v Furrion does not need constant power to satisify any electrical needs to stay healthy.

Thanks to everyone who helped and replied


29rl3.jpg


29rl 2.png
 

Attachments

  • 29rl1.png
    29rl1.png
    455.4 KB · Views: 4
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top